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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 97 23:05:59 EST
From: "John H. Porter" <jhp7e@amazon.evsc.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <9703050405.AA29755@amazon.evsc.Virginia.EDU>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Bob Christian <BICHRIST@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: WWW Pictures

BELOW ARE EXCERPTS FROM THE ALL SCIENTISTS' MEETING CONCERNING THE
SYNTHESIS VOLUME.  IF YOU WERE NOT THERE, PLEASE READ THEM CAREFULLY.
WE NEED TO UPDATE THE OUTLINES, MAKING THEM MORE COMPARABLE AND RESPONSIVE
TO WHAT WE AGREED UPON THE OTHER WEEK END.

I WILL BE HOUNDING YOU ABOUT UPDATING YOUR OUTLINES SOON (UNLESS YOU HAVE
DONE SO).  BUT YOU HAVE ABOUT A WEEK OR TWO BREAK.  (I'LL BE EATING PASTA
NEXT WEEK IN PARMA.)  BUT I'LL BE BACK.

UNTIL THEN, PLEASE LOOK THIS OVER, TALK TO OTHERS WHO WERE AT THE MEETING, AND
THINK ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE REDONE ON YOUR OUTLINE.  WE NEED THEM IN GOOD
ORDER FOR OUR MIDTERM REVIEW.

THANKS,
BOB

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
All-PI Meeting - 3/1/97

   I. In Attendance
THESE ARE THE LEARNED ONES!

      1. Hayden
      2. McGlathery
      3. Erwin
      4. Christian
      5. Porter
      6. Wiberg
      7. Anderson
      8. Macko
      9. Brinson
     10. Young
     11. Day
     12. Carlson
     13. Blum
     14. Mills
     15. Oertel

HERE IS WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT THE SYNTHESIS VOLUME AS HEARD AND RECORDED BY
OUR FAVORITE KEYBOARDER.

 III. Christian - Synthesis Volume
      1. current outline
         a) social history chapter - Truitt
         b) megasite
            1) Shao
         c) Integration
            1) hard to do until we have specific material
      2. agenda for today
         a) first breakout look at how your chapter can be linked to
            other chapters
         b) revise outlines
         c) between now and end of May examine revised outlines
         d) early June - third generation outlines
      3. History
         a) last year, formulated overall outline
         b) sent perspectus off to Oxford - long delay on review
            1) they expressed concerns about breadth - broad audience
            2) need to better job connecting to coastal systems elsewhere
            3) need to demostrate that overall theme has broad ecological
               significance
            4) "sexier" title
               a> keywork search important
      4. Hayden - interactions with Oxford
         a) they don't do much at desk to evaluate - send off to
            reviewers, immediately
            1) without asking!
            2) would like to have sample text blocks from each chapter
         b) they would prefer to have them stand entirely on their own
            without focus on "local" research
            1) want audience who want to know more than about Virginia
               Coast
            2) eg. Konza volume: Fire and Herbivores on Prairies
            3) our data drives, but in larger perspective - coastal systems
         c) publication committee will have editorial person in
            Albuquerque
            1) but net plays no role in site volumes
            2) minimal oversight, but interest in progress
            3) committee to be reconstituted at spring CC meeting
         d) are we tied to Oxford?
            1) no, but we would need good reason
            2) e.g. PAL volume may go in existing arctic series
            3) see no reason to go elsewhere here....
      5. discussion
         a) many parts of system we know about in larger frame of
            reference
            1) activities up and down the coast
         b) how about: "Disturbance and Ecosystem Dynamics on High-Speed
            Coastal Landscapes"
         c) time or process or geography needs to be more universal
         d) compare to marshes in more urban setting?
            1) not sure we can write that...
         e) trajectory of major landscape as concept
         f) may be able to link to data at NIN
         g) need to be sensitive to retaining and modifying outlines
      6. Theme
         a) use theme of proposal
            1) add biotic feedbacks? increasing perception of importance
               a> Wilson and Agnew paper relevant
         b) clearly do disturbance, state change and free surfaces - do
            we add feedbacks?
            1) discussion
               a> feedbacks will emerge
                  1> don't need to formally change theme
               b> but should we target them as major aspect
               c> feedbacks may be more important in future proposal
               d> could have people add section on biotic feedbacks to each
                  chapter
                  1> feedbacks are critical elements of state change
                  2> way to get notions deeply entrenched in chapters
               e> missing link are biotic feedbacks - both facilitation and
                  competition
                  1> even in harsh environment, these are important
                  2> biotic processes are showing up everywhere - broadens
                     audience
               f> do we have enough information on relative importance of
                  biotic on harsh vs benign environments?
                  1> could take stab at... more speculative
                  2> need to do the experiments
                  3> possibly next proposal
               g> can't ignore biotic processes!
                  1> probably very important
               h> in production and decomp chapter, feedbacks are dominant
                  1> would expand theoretical base
               i> need to highlight where appropriate
                  1> in intro
                  2> in synthesis
                  3> role will vary between chapters
      7. breadth issues
         a) have dealt with pretty well already
         b) can link to in introductions
      8. audience
         a) to whom shall we address
            1) graduate students and above
         b) don't envision as textbook - reference text
      9. definitions

IF YOU HAVE A DEFINITION, LET ME KNOW!

         a) disturbance: definition from Richlefs
         b) discussion
            1) definitions are hard to deal with... can go round and round
            2) suggestion: circulate list of prototype definitions for
               comments to derive working definitions
            3) they will always be conditional on type of work
            4) chapters need to document how they differ from glossary
            5) easy - free surfaces
               a> disturbance more difficult to define
               b> ecosystem state change more nebulous
                  1> ecosystem is in the eye of the beholder
               c> we need to have feedback between contrary arguements that go
                  back to introduction
               d> Luquillo uses "Trajectories" more so than end products for
                  state change
            6) definitions of concepts rather than physical realities -
               start off by not knowing what we are grapling with - true
               synthesis will cause definitions to evolve
               a> still need to start off with some definitions
            7) one of goals for chapter might be defining what states are?
               Multivariate analyses? Clustering?
               a> same place, different times
               b> position for time surrigate
            8) have lots of patches out there - many won't change without
               perturbation
               a> others, we know, when left alone will change
               b> have some notions about states, but have not done it
                  empirically
            9) can't define single coordinate system that will hold for
               everyone?
           10) chapter on states?
           11) definition of concepts vs classification of landscape units
         c) make development of definitions part of introductory chapter
         d) can add to list
     10. key references

IF YOU HAVE A KEY REFERNCE, LET ME KNOW.

         a) place on web page for chapter
         b) can put on chapter WWW page
            1) each chapter should have its own WWW page
         c) helps glue together
            1) some key references go across chapters
         d) current Key References
            1) Lugo
            2) Wilson and Agnew
            3) Dane
            4) others?
               a> Oertel & Kraft paper
                  1> major compartments, delineation of landscapes
               b> Brinson et al. - flow diagram
                  1> appropriate for some chapters
         e) Hayden will xerox and circulate papers that transcend
            chapters
            1) BOB WILL PUT OUT CALL
  IV. breakout session
      1. look at problem areas
         a) overlaps
         b) hard to separate sections 1 (structure) and 2 (processes)
            1) lengthy outlines on 1, but sketchy on 2
            2) can move around pieces even after some of the writing - did
               at KNZ LTER
      2. suggestion for additional chapter
         a) nitrogen transformations across boundaries
            1) section 2? - seems too specific
            2) could go in section III... add III.2.1 section on nitrogen
               a> III.2 is focusing mostly on organic matter
      3. Discussion

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT SECTION, SUMMARIZING THE CONTENT OF THE SECTIONS!

         a) Section 1 - chapter about each of surfaces
            1) spatial and temporal fluctions
            2) may want to dovetail into other introductory chapters
         b) Sec. 1 is setting...
            1) have geographic settings
            2) climate and history settings
            3) could they go in holocene history?
               a> current outline deals with change of state, but not free
                  surfaces explicitly
               b> talks about land and sea surfaces
                  1> not groundwater - much shorter time frame than rest of
                     chapter
            4) why not have conceptual setting - as separate from geologic
               setting
               a> would be introduced in introduction
               b> intersections between free surfaces
                  1> way to generalize to ecosystems in general
            5) separate introductions for separate sections
            6) add atmosphere as free surface?
               a> considered, but did not use
               b> but in forest canopy air is important surface
                  1> could be quite important
            7) introduction has to connect free surfaces to places on the
               penninsula - grand model
            8) introductions to different sections is probably a good idea
               -lay out road map for section
            9) title - focus on coastal landscape setting
               a> with VCR as specific example
           10) agree - no separate chapter on free surfaces
         c) Geographic Issues - I.4

IF YOU ARE PART OF CHAPTER I.4, CONTACT MARK BRINSON.

            1) outlines very different
               a> some into processes
               b> some did not
               c> need to avoid getting deeply into processes before section
                  II
               d> suggest I.4 be collapsed into summary done after other
                  chapters are written
                  1> don't need level of detail in chapters
            2) could be dry chapter, but it is an important chapter -
               defining and classifying - should be very descriptive
               a> can refer back to in subsequent chapters
            3) I.4 will be purely descriptive chapter - what they are, not
               why they are
               a> could put pictures in CDROM
            4) suggest for each unit
               a> dominant landforms
                  1> landscape elements?
                  2> ecosystem states?
               b> soil texture - sediments
               c> how free surfaces intersect
                  1> figure on surfaces in proposal
               d> fauna
               e> flora
            5) transect presentation vs free surface presentation
               a> do transect - easy to interpret, but start subsections with
                  clear graphic showing subsurfaces
         d) does I.4 fit between 1.3 and 1.5
            1) 3, 5-6 all focus on time
            2) could be first...
               a> real stage setter - ties well into introduction
                  1> can be quite short!
                  2> tie to new perspective after intro
               b> common way to start book... have been several others
            3) but 1-3 is sequence in size
            4) think about audience - do people read beginning to end?
               a> this is not a textbook
               b> synthesis requires full reading of book
            5) leave order to editor?
               a> once chapters are written, order of chapters will sort self
                  out
            6) move to be I.0 - after intial introductory
               a> what about table laying out basic ecosystem parameters?
                  1> give ranges for variables in each of core areas
                  2> add description of megasite
            7) I.3 is shorter-term history
               a> either zoom in, or zoom out chapter
               b> not really "megasite" chapter - really barrier island and
                  sealevel rise on decadal scale
               c> move megasite description to 1.4 (now I.0)
                  1> table of coverage by different landscape elements
            8) nature of disturbance - preamble to disturbance section
               a> 1.5-6 includes some nature of disturbance
               b> but do preamble beginning of section II
            9) I.5
               a> needs to be broadened to aquatic systems
               b> eliminate biogeography - focus on ecological history
                  1> macroalgae - waterfowl - aquatic harvest
               c> can't get into mechanics of disturbance in this chapter
               d> history - ecological, social, geological - change
                  1> geographical context
                  2> functional context
               e> but biogeography is important to present
                  1> also ecological history
                  2> needs to be built across taxonomic groups
                     a: birds
                     b: mammals
                     c: invertebrates
                        1: aquatic
                  3> would move section 2 of chapter III.3 to this chapter
               f> what about merging into section I.0 (formerly I.4) by
                  listing organisms
           10) social history
               a> Barns did colonial history
               b> we should also approach Curtis Badger
                  1> get feel for how this place was the turn of the century
                  2> link to CDROM
               c> also need black history
         e) section II
            1) add something on the beach?
               a> could move some of Craig's stuff from Section I.0 (formerly
                  I.4)
            2) II.3 - title has evolved - should be The Lagoons
               a> will be referenced to bayside - synoptic survey
                  1> but is not major component
               b> should it be in disturbance chapter?
                  1> seagrass loss
            3) not just landscape response - really ecological response to
               disturbance
               a> maybe should be "Response to Disturbance Within Landscape
                  Units"
               b> How about "Ecological Response to Disturbance Within
                  Landscape Units"
                  1> OK
                  2> III would be "Ecological Response to Disturbance Across
                     Landscape Units
         f) Section III
            1) need 2 page intro
            2) issue of nutrient cycling
               a> Macko and Iris will work on, maybe Wiegert if can get lagoon
                  data
         g) Section V - Electronic Materials for Synthesis Volume
            1) Figures
               a> color versions of figures
               b> animated figures
               c> browse versions of satellite images
            2) photos
               a> pictures of landscape units
               b> video of different landscape units
                  1> organisms
                  2> free surfaces
            3) question putting data? - don't want to give up property
               rights on data
               a> can point to data from links on CD
               b> can also point to North Inlet data - with chapter by Jim
                  Morris
            4) do as WWW page
               a> but can't post on net - Oxford won't let us
            5) look at hydrology text used at UVA
               a> material on CD is phenomenal
            6) Supplemental WWW page
               a> can include updates
      2. biotic interactions










                     a: 6 weeks  - get zoning etc.
     18. Additional ideas
         Current outline is confusing, need to get the entire thing
         into a more consistent format (Day)
         Can everyone feed info to JHP for formatting?
         -Potential use of web for outline development.
         -Standardized format for reference submission

         -still need hard copy of outline for today

     19. Question of chapter overlap - Mike wants error on the side
         of overlap so that most of the chapters are more stand alone
         documents.
              -Konza editors moved sections from chapter to chapter,
         Mark raised question of "authorship"
              - Bruce's model is lead author has most intellectual
         investment, ALL contributors are listed thereafter.

     20. Reprints will not be available
     21. Likely to be a front-end payment to facilitate development
         of the text, aim is to keep price low - will cause a loss of
         royalty - seemed to be universally OK with people.  Want an
         effort to keep price below the $100 mark.  Inclusion of CD
         will allow for color plates, etc. (Possibly an Oxford
         website).
     22. Need to begin thinking about appropriate graphics.
         Continuity among figures etc.
     23. Also true for style within text -
     24. Want to use a single Word processor - for continuity of
         indexing etc. Most people use Word, but 4 or 5 use Word
         Perfect - several different versions.
     25. Volume will be typeset.

     26. Bob's comments

         -Estimate numbber of pages 3 double spaced pages per printed
         page, half page per figure  Oxford wants to know sometime
         soon.
              -Need to determine if pages between chapters is uniform

         - Express desire to write 2 page intro for each chapter -
         Bob has prerogative to assign this task after reviewing
         chapters

         - Can outline from 4 page schedule (possible format) be used
         for individual chapters?   Answer: Yes as a starting point
         to give to John.

         - Use of standard reference collection technique - developed
         by John and perhaps Aaron. Important for book and for
         project.

         -References in chapters or at end? (at end)

         -A preliminary version of the document to be present as a
         web page at UVa. Perhaps by IP coded access.

         - 11:27 Break out into groups.
              -Linda Steve Frank and Iris: Processes Chapter
              -Bruce and Pat:
              - Everyone else works alone I guess.

DID YOU GET ALL OF THAT?  OF COURSE I'LL BE REPEATING MYSELF LATER.
BUT TRY TO GIVE THIS A LITTLE OF YOUR TIME.

THANKS,
BOB


--
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
John H. Porter |  Dept. Environmental Sciences  |  jhp7e@virginia.EDU
(804) 924-8999 |  Clark Hall, Univ. of Virginia |  jporter@lternet.EDU
(804) 924-7761 |  Charlottesville, VA 22903     |  (804) 982-2137(fax)
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
WWW page: http://www.vcrlter.virginia.edu/jhp7e.html